Interview with Vin Scelsa '93
Michael Cerveris, Des MacAnuff and Buddy Smith

Transcribed by Fredda Tone

"It's a Boy"

Vin:    real audio part 1
And I happen to have with me in the studio right now, two of the actors who portray that boy, that son, who, of course, as everybody knows, is Tommy. I have Buddy Smith, who plays "middle" Tommy, I guess. How old is the Tommy that you play, about eight, nine, ten years old?

Buddy:
He's ten.

Vin:
Ten years old. Okay. Buddy Smith is with me, and Michael-

Michael:
Cerveris

Vin:
Cerveris. Man, I'm gonna have-

Michael:
You were so close...

Vin:
Yeah, really. Buddy Smith I can-

Michael:
You started with Buddy Smith, cause that was pretty easy.

Vin:
Right. Buddy, I can handle, that's okay. Buddy Smith, I mean, that's a great name. Then I got these two other guys in here- Des McAnuff-

Des:
Well done.

Vin:
And Michael-

Michael:
Cerveris.

Vin:
Cerveris, okay. Michael, of course, stars as "grown up" Tommy. Michael is the guy who gets to literally tumble through the air, over at the St. James Theatre, in this glorious, wonderful new production of The Who's "Tommy" which was co-written by Des McAnuff, who is also the director and who has just won the outstanding director's award from the Outer Circle Critics, right? Outstanding director, and the show itself, outstanding musical?

Des:
Yeah, best musical. Yeah, their calendar's a little different than some of the other awards, they actually start a little bit earlier.

Vin:
Des, come a little closer to the mike.

Des:
They start a little bit earlier than some of the other awards, so they announce them fairly early.

Vin:
Who are they, the Outer Circle Critics? (laughs)

Des:
That's a good question!

Vin:
I always thought of those as being, like, guys that nobody else wanted to talk to, so they- you guys go over there! You go hang out over there! Who are they?

Des:
I think they're the critics that write about Broadway, who are in the area, but that write for publications outside of New York City. So, I think they're, you know, critics in places like Albany, and so on.

Vin:
So, is that supposed to be like a good sign, a good indication of what's gonna happen when Tony time comes around?

Des:
I have no idea, I really don't know, I mean it's always a good sign when people like the show and give you an award, but I don't think it necessarily means anything more than that.

Vin:
Now, Des McAnuff, you are the co-writer of the book of this version of "Tommy." You co-wrote it with Pete Townshend. Tell us a little bit about how it came about. You worked with the La Jolla Playhouse out in California.

Des:
Yeah, I'm the artistic director at the La Jolla Playhouse, and actually-

Vin:
Which of course is spelled "La Jolla" but since everybody tonight's got names that are pronounced different from the way they're spelled, it's La "Hoya".

Des:
Right. Actually, I'm partner with, I'm actually kind of a silent partner these days, but in the Dodgers, Dodger Productions. They're also the producers of, I guess they're the general managers on "Jelly's Last Jam" and they're also the producers on "Guys and Dolls" and we've been working together since 1976, and one of them, Michael David, came to visit me, in La Jolla. This would have been July of '91. I thought it was, you know, strange that he would just kind of show up, take a three thousand mile trip, so I thought he was coming for more than just, you know, tea, and he basically said, you know, would you be interested in collaborating with Townshend on a new version of "Tommy", a stage version. And I said I would be interested if he got involved, and, you know, assuming we had his approval over whatever changes or developments would have to made.

Vin:
So it was this outside person's idea.

Des:
You know, it was actually a company, it's very complicated, the other producing group is called Pace Theatrical, and Pace actually acquired the rights to do this, to do a stage version of "Tommy" and then went to the Dodgers, partnered with them, and the Dodgers brought me in. And basically, I went to England that following November and met with Pete. There was kind of a business meeting, and we met there, and spent about, we got about ten minutes in, talking about the piece, but they were an important ten minutes. I think we asked each other the same basic questions.

Vin:
What were they, what were those questions?

Des:
You know, at the time, actually, some of it's changed quite dramatically but, for example, to begin with, I thought it might be best served in a one-act form. But you know, basically things like, we wouldn't want to mess with this too much because, you know, it's obviously a classic bit of writing, and yet we had to, there were gaps in the narrative that had to be addressed. I wanted to know how married he was to the song order and I of course learned that the song order on the original album didn't reflect his intentions, necessarily. It was actually put together that way because they were producing an album and you know, a certain number of songs would fit on a particular side.

Vin:
This, of course, is before the days of compact discs, we're still talking about LP's, and they had a timing constraint.

Des:
Exactly, and also, because it was a song cycle, they weren't all that concerned about it. Kit Lambert, the producer, wasn't that concerned about it. Anyway, basically, I had thirty-six hours before we could meet again, because he was in the studio, and I was staying at the Portobello Hotel. And I just locked myself away for thirty-six hours, thinking that I didn't have an idea in my head, but of course I had been playing the tape in my car, so as it turns out, I guess ideas had been developing, and put together an outline. Listened to every version that had been recorded, listened to the soundtrack from the film, which I hadn't heard in a long time, listened to the London Symphony version, listened to a couple other versions of songs that other people had covered and spent a lot of time again with the original, which became our bible, in terms of the sound of the show, right down to the french horn parts, and copying the guitar licks, and you know, using the same voicings, and so on, and in those thirty-six hours I put together kind of a rough outline and you know, just a place to begin. And then we had a five hour meeting at the hotel, down in the little restaurant area.It's one of the few hotels, it's a real rock and roll hotel. It's one of the few restaurants, or hotels in London that actually has an all-night restaurant. All the rock and roll people stay there. We actually had this wonderful five hour kind of meeting of the minds and I think, really came out of that meeting, you know, friends.And he flew to La Jolla two weeks later, where I was doing a production of "Elmer Gantry" a musical that I was working on at the time, and I think he really fell in love with the theatre, and decided this would be a good place to develop, to do the r and d work on "Tommy" that would be necessary.

Vin:
Now, at La Jolla, you do a lot of original things, you develop a lot of original projects there?

Des:
Yeah, we certainly do.I guess the philosophy of the theatre is that the American theatre is about eclecticism, and we really embrace all different kinds of genres and put them side by side. You know, we've had everybody from the director, Peter Sellars, and Robert Woodruff on sort of one side of the theatrical spectrum, and we've had Bill Irwin and you know, some of the new vaudevillians. And we do Shakespeare, and we also consider the American, you know we consider musicals and musical theatre to be you know, an inherent part of the American repertoire, so we embrace those, as well.

Vin:
Is it comparable at all to the theatre where I know Buddy Smith has worked a lot, over in Jersey, to the Papermill Playhouse. Is it comparable to that at all, or is it more, quote,"legitimate" than the Papermill? I usually think of it as being more of an entertainment kind of a theatre.

Des:
Yeah, well we try to entertain people at La Jolla, but (laugh) I know sometimes we assault them, too!

Vin:
That sounds a little strange, but you know what I'm talking about.

Des:
I think it's probably a little bit different. I think Papermill concentrates, if I'm not mistaken, more on musicals, and we do some pretty wacked-out work. That's very different from, in fact, Michael Cerveris actually played in a contemporary version of "Much Ado About Nothing" that we did immediately after "Tommy" and it was a very different evening than "Tommy" so, we do some fairly radically different work there.

Vin:
You have a resident company, in terms of actors, and technicians..

Des:
We don't, we don't, actually-

Michael:
I was the resident company this summer.

Des:
He was there, for like, eight months. Yeah, actually, it's kind of an extended, that's actually accurate, it's a kind of extended family, you know, I believe that's the way the American theatre sort of operates. You know, if you want the best people, you can't pin them down, you have to let them ebb and flow and come in and out when they want to. Also, we can't afford to, you know, nobody could make a living there, so they have to go away, so they can make money, so they can come back again.

Vin:
Hmmm, yeah, yeah. Now, you're a relatively young man, Des, you fit into the-

Des:
Sixty-three, but I drank lots of milk (laugh). I'm aging gracefully.

Vin:
All right, so- that's when-

Des:
I'm forty, actually. Quickly, let me say that. I'm forty!

Vin:
So you were sort of at the young end of the spectrum when "Tommy" came out, in 1969.

Des:
Yeah, I think I was seventeen, and I can remember, I was in a band at the time. Everybody was in a band in 1969, and I actually heard the album at a roadie's place. His name was Dennis Blunt, and I can actually remember hearing, sitting down and listening to the album, and remember the effect it had on me. I got into "Hair" or I shouldn't say that, I got into a company that never happened. But I auditioned for "Hair" the next year, which came to Toronto in 1970, and I would say those two projects convinced me that electric music had a place you know, on stage, and it's taken me twenty-two years to actually make it really happen. But you know, up until that time, I had always associated musicals with the kind of score you might hear in, you know, "Sound of Music" or something, and I thought of it really as my parents' music, and I think "Tommy" had, actually, in its own way, a real effect on me.

Vin:
Wait a minute, hold it, you didn't hear what we opened the show with tonight.

Des:
(laughs) "Sound of Music?" It is an eclectic show.(laugh)

Vin:
You weren't here, though, you didn't hear this-

(Plays Julie Andrews from "Camelot")

Vin:
But I'm not gonna play the whole thing again! Des is over here going, dancing along, yeah, we know, you really like-

Michael:
Yeah, these are closet "Camelot" fans. We don't like that known, but-

Des:
Well, we're hoping "Tommy" becomes to the president, you know, what "Camelot" became to Kennedy. That would be great, that's our ambition. He hasn't - we're waiting for him to show up, this is his show, it's his time.

Vin:
Wouldn't that be bizarre, man, yeah! (laughs)

Michael:
Yeah, I mentioned it in Us Magazine, hoping that it would happen.

Des:
At this rate I'm afraid the Reagans will beat him to it.(laugh)

Michael:
That's a challenge, Bill.

Vin:
Des, when you went to London, and you met with Townshend, and this whole thing suddenly began to become- real. Was there a point at which you flashed back to that seventeen year old Des, sitting in some roadie's room somewhere, and you went "Oh my God, how can I possibly do this?" And, did you get, was there a moment of intimidation, dealing with the Who's "Tommy?"

Des:
Was there a moment of intimidation? I suppose I do have a great deal of respect for the original recording, and I think Pete's a sort of, actually, I hate to disillusion anybody, but he's actually a really fine guy. And he's very good at disarming people, not disarming people, getting people past their kind of pre-conceived notions. Actually, in the Portobello Hotel, I can remember at one point, he was demonstrating to me one of the ways he had injured his hand, and actually stood up and did a windmill for me. And I can remember thinking at that time, well, this is actually a cool moment in life, where Pete Townshend is actually doing a private windmill, just for me. But you know, I've also worked with a number of other rock and roll people. I did a show with Ray Davies of the Kinks in '88, called "Eighty Days" which we've yet to get here to New York, but eventually, I hope we will. And, you know, we've had other people, like Randy Newman, working at the Playhouse, and of course I worked with the country, the late country music songwriter, Roger Miller, so...

Vin:
I think you worked with Roger Miller in, uh,

Des:
Here. We did "Big River" together, the Mark Twain, a few years ago.But Pete certainly, in my opinion, just as an intellectual, kind of in a league on his own, in terms of pop music. So, but, I think it was one of those relationships where we really got along from the beginning. I mean he's a witty guy, and he's very easy to be with, and we've spent hundreds of hours together, since.We're also both the fathers of small children. He has a three year old and I have a two year old. And, you know, it's good to have somebody to complain to about that. We've shared a lot on that level, too. And I think that actually, Michael said to me the first day in La Jolla, cause, I knew when he walked in, he was our Tommy. And the first day at rehearsal, he said something really nice to me that I haven't forgotten. He said "What's great about what you and Pete have done to this piece", and we had read the script, and listened to the music, and so on, "is that it has a lot of heart." And I thought about that, and I think, if that's true, it probably comes from the fact that we're both fathers of children, and I think it's impossible, once you've become a father, you know, it does affect you, obviously.

Vin:
Well, this leads to, I guess the one major question, critical question, that has been raised by some, which is the ending of "Tommy." And the fact that on the original album, of course, everything is very vague, everything is sort of left up to the hallucinogenic imagination of the listener.

Des:
If you like it, you call it ambiguous. If you don't like it, you call it vague.

Vin:
Right.

Des:
Just like, if you like it, you call it clear. If you don't like it, you call it obvious!

Vin:
But "Tommy" certainly becomes a rather nasty character, on the album. I mean, when he starts his holiday camps, and he brings people out and he makes people re-enact his years of you know, the deaf, dumb and blind thing, by putting the dark glasses and corking up their mouths...

Des:
Now, you're remembering the movie! And this is what, see, this is what happens to people's-

Vin:
But isn't that in the song, doesn't he say "Close up your eyes, block up your mouth?"

Des:
I think you're talking about, in that song, Tommy's holiday camp. You're talking about, not welcome, "We're Not Gonna Take It."

Vin:
"We're Not Gonna Take It" the beginning of "We're Not Gonna Take It."

Des:
There were some lyric changes there.

Vin:
Yeah.

Des:
Um, first of all...

Vin:
Yes, and I am remembering the film, as well.

Des:
You are remembering the film.

Vin:
Of course.

Des:
And you know, people, this may take a minute, but-

Vin:
Go ahead, we've got plenty of time.

Des:
Okay, you know-

Vin:
Oh, wait a minute, hold it, all right, yeah, go ahead, go-

Des:
People, I think, and we understood this going into it. There are some people, for whom "Tommy" represents a time in their life, and you know, maybe they were, maybe they smoked pot for the first time that summer. Maybe they actually lost their virginity, listening to "Tommy" or maybe they got political. Buddy hangs out with theatre goons (laughs) he's a worldly kid.

Vin:
I see, he knows all about this stuff.

Des:
Anyway, and so we kind of knew there would be some people who might be kind of reactionary about it. They don't want to think that Pete's grown, or matured, because it means that they have to look in the mirror themselves. And I think people like that, and particularly people who had a fantasy about it, maybe they have their own particular interpretation of "Tommy." And now, this is a very small minority of people, I mean, I've had this reaction very rarely from folks, you know a couple people have responded that way.

Vin:
People with typewriters.

Des:
A couple of people with typewriters.

Vin:
John Parelis in the Times wrote about-

Des:
I think John had a bad day-

Vin:
Well John's a cranky guy, anyhow.

Des:
Well, you know, he had done a rather nice interview, so I was kind of disappointed. Also, I think he's got it wrong, too. I don't think that really was what the ending was on the album. I think people do tend to remember the sort of Fascistic portrait that Ken Russell created for "Tommy" and that was Ken's vision, not Pete's. So if you want Pete's vision for "Tommy" it's on Broadway, and if you've got respect for him as an artist and you're not just hangin on to, you know, a little chapter from your youth, then you're really going to dig this. And, so the other thing I'll say is that what's interesting to me, is you get this same kind of reaction. There are people who don't think electric music should be on stage. They're trapped in 1955. We get some of that reaction, too-

Vin:
It's too loud!

Des:
From the real retro types.

Vin:
Yeah.

Des:
It's too loud, electric music shouldn't be on stage, if you like rock and roll, you can't embrace the theatre. I find both, and these people are totally on the opposite side of the spectrum from the other people we're talking about, from John Peralis (sp). And yet, oddly enough, they have the same kind of opinion. I don't think there's anything... I think our "Tommy" is very much a spiritual journey. We took away some of the accoutrements, like we don't call Tommy a guru, because it's so blatantly clear that he's got that kind of following in the piece, we didn't want to kind of, play down to the audience. And I think we're trusting the fact that, I think we've learned, that on some level, "Tommy" kind of parallels the creation of rock and roll, as a post World War II phenomenon.

Vin:
Well "Tommy" is very much about rock and roll, and -

Des:
The pinball machine's a [stratocast????]

Vin:
Yeah, I mean, very specifically-

Des:
That's why Michael smashes it! (laugh)

Vin:
But it's very specifically about what happened, especially in England at the time. I mean, there's so much autobiography, in terms of Townshend and the other members of the Who in there. And of course, a lot of people who don't know rock and roll history intimately, and there's no reason why they should- miss that aspect of it. But that aspect of it is real important, certainly important to Townshend.

Des:
Well, I think one of the things that scares certain rock people who may be on the kind of the left, maybe the intellectual left, you know, I think the terrible thing about the left in general, is we tend to let the extreme right wing abscond a lot of basic notions. For example, Dan Quayle decides that the family belongs to the right wing, so now the rest of us better stay away from anything that has to do with the family, even though Tommy's had a family since1969. You know, it's a typical family too, there's an alcoholic uncle, who's a child abuser...

Vin:
(laughs) Wait a minute, who's typical family are you talking about?

Michael:
Des's tipping away a little bit.

Des:
Tommy you know, basically watches his father shoot his mother's lover in front of him, and then has his parents turn on him. This of course is typical normal family behavior, but, I think there are certain people who get very nervous, since Pete's actually writing about the family, that this is somehow, some kind of conservative statement, and this is just utterly ludicrous. Hamlet has a family. Almost every story is about a family, on some level.

Vin:
Des, you hit on something before, when you said how people are caught up in this youthful moment, and want "Tommy" and rock and roll, in general, from that period, to remain sort of frozen in that time. And they don't want to hear about Townshend evolving, about Townshend's ideas changing.

Des::
The parents are real people.

Michael:
And it's like everybody's favorite band who they discover. You know, the people that were listening to replacements before anybody knew who they were and then suddenly everybody's listening to them and then they're a sellout because now everybody knows about them. You people constantly do that with music you know they feel this ownership because they discovered it at whatever significant point for themselves. And then if the artists want to develop as artists and as human beings if they develop in a way that the listeners aren't ready to yet, they turn away from them. Which actually, is exactly what happens in our production of "Tommy." Now it's very funny to me that the reaction of some of the press has been exactly what we show eight times a week on stage, that when you refuse to give the people exactly what they think they want.

Vin::
What they think they want.

Michael:
That they refuse to accept it and they're not gonna take it. And these are the same people who are saying, "Well I don't understand, what aren't they taking?" And they're proving the point exactly.

Des:
I think it's also really important to point out that the critical response has been overwhelmingly positive. I think it's the most positive critical response I can remember.

Vin::
You guys have a full three pages in the New York Times today.

Des::
And the quotes are not just like "This is a nice show" you know, "nicest show of the season." It's like "This is going to change Broadway", "Rock musical has finally arrived after twenty years." And so there's an overwhelming so there are bound to be some whiners there always are. And it's also the way people can make their own sort of reputation to be the one to mind Parelis even admitted that it was kind of a whiney thing that he was writing.

Vin:
Well there's that sort of that cynical New York hip kind of attitude...

Des:
Dave Marsh, who saw the first preview, loved it. He was the guy I always heard, but he is the official Who biographer and I think most people to many people's minds.

Vin:
And a well known cranky man, though a very cranky man. He doesn't like a lot of stuff Dave Marsh.

Des:
And he was extremely supportive of the piece really, was really affected so that the rock press by and large has been very, very supportive and I'm thrilled that they are. We weren't sure how they were gonna react and the overwhelming majority of them have been extremely supportive for which I am grateful.

Vin:
We're talking to Des McAnuff, and Michael Cerv- Cerversis- no?

Michael:
Cerveris!

Vin:
Cerveris! Why do I have so much trouble with that?

Michael:
You're not alone.

Vin:
And I love my little friend, Buddy Smith over here cause I have no trouble with his name, whatsoever.

Michael:
You should have heard it before he changed it. (laugh)

Vin:
WXRK New York, 92.3 Krock, we have these messages.

Commercial Messages

Vin:
Ah, we're back here on Idiot's Delight, with Des McAnuff, from "Tommy." He's the director, and the co-writer of the book. Michael Cerveris, how 'bout that?

Michael:
Very good! Very good.

Vin:
Michael Cerveris, and Buddy Smooch, uh, Smith! Buddy Smith, I'm sorry, Buddy. Buddy plays a-Buddy Smooch?

Michael:
It's actually how he's known in the women's dressing room and I don't know how that happened.

Vin:
Well maybe Buddy, when you start your rock and roll band you can change your name to Buddy Smooch. There's kind of a nihilistic kind of a "hunk" sort of a sound to that. Des, I had the pleasure and the privilege of talking to Townshend, interviewing him a couple of weeks ago, and it was broadcast last Sunday night right around this time. He talks about how he feels that he's finally gotten "Tommy" right, those were his exact words. He thinks that he can let it go now. I asked him what he thought he'd be remembered for, a hundred years from now, and he said, "Of course, "Tommy." He said that's not necessarily what he wanted to be remembered for but that's what he will be remembered for.

Des:
That's because we haven't done the next project.

Vin:
Which is what?

Des:
I'm not telling! But it's big!

Vin:
Won't get fooled again! I see, the epic. But he talked about how he feels that the maturity that he's brought to it now, the vision that he's brought to it now, has actually completed it for him, in a way that he was never satisfied before. He was never really satisfied with all, what really has, what's really going on here. What is the ending, really? And I find it fascinating that you bring up this whole notion that the right wing in this country, has kind of taken over certain values, and certain ideals, and thus made it unpopular for the rest of us to embrace the family, the way Tommy embraces his family. I mean this show now, the way it stands, there's an incredible feeling of for one thing, forgiveness. And Michael, you can maybe talk about that a little bit. Because Tommy, I mean, people will say, "Well geez this kid was abused. I mean, his cousin Kevin rolls him around in a trash can and sticks cigarettes in his ears, his uncle Ernie has gotten involved in some kind of physical abuse that we don't really want to talk about and then when he finally-

Des:
That's like you he's talking about, we call that the meat puppet section-

Vin:
(laughs) When he's finally able to speak he winds up forgiving these people, and some people rebel against that. Well to me that's the most generous, wonderful thing about the character and about the play, is that he can embrace these people, who have done him wrong, and he can love them. I mean, isn't that important?

Des:
I think so. To quote, the best thing that Spiro Agnew did for this country is, he gave us the term nattering nabubs of naked abyss. And so, I think it applies in this particular case. You know, I think also what Michael and I have talked about, at the ending, is that it's not just that when Tommy, when Buddy pushes Tommy back, after "See Me, Feel Me" which is all exactly according to the original album, I might add. So this is really about interpretation. You know, I've heard people say that it was actually the lover who shot the father on the original, which is not true, that's the Ken Russell..

Vin:
There's no way to know.

Des:
There's been a lot of confusion about all these things, and what Townshend's doing for people is coming along, and he's clarifying them. So if people have fantasized something a little bit different, then they get offended. I think it's because they are getting older, and that scares them. But what Michael and I have talked about, about the ending is that it's not just about forgiveness and acceptance. Because I'm not sure he completely, I think it's acceptance more than forgiveness to begin with which is I think, what we all have to to get on with our lives. We all have to deal with our own demons. And they're often members of our family. And that's what people spend twenty years on the couch, you know, trying to get past. But I think it's more than that. I think, when, after "See Me, Feel Me" when the young Tommy pushes the older Tommy back into toward reality, again which is the quote from "I'm Free" from the original, you know, recording, and freedom tastes of reality. What he's doing is, Tommy is now equipped, not just to appreciate the miracle of life, but to also get through the dark stuff, you know, that most of us go through life facing. So I don't think it is a romantic or sentimental ending at all. I think it's a kind of spiritual ending, which I think, is very true to the end and it is uplifting. But "Listening to You" has always been uplifting. God, the first time I heard it, it was uplifting, you know it's an anthem, it's a kind of a secular hymn, you know.

Vin:
And what you've done in the stage production, is you've had Tommy turn around and face the audience. And you become the audience. I mean, that's your intention, right?

Des:
Absolutely, and they become in a sense, members of the extended family, too and I think at that moment there's a sort of celebration of all of us being there together in the theatre and being alive.

Vin:
But ultimately, Tommy is alone at the end of the show. I mean, he's at that point that Townshend refers to, that moment at adolescence, when the adolescent faces adulthood, faces the rest of his or her life, has the family, has the strength of that extended group behind them but still is alone, and that wonderful freeze at the end of the Tommies on stage, ....

Des:
That moment, oddly enough was almost completely spontaneous. I think that happened, it was not the carefully planned moment that I wish it was. Something that was cooked up cause we needed an ending. I always believe in not doing a visual ending to a show until you get there because it's kind of the opposite of a film. I think with a film you probably have to know what that last moment is, but I think with a stage process, you can discover things. So...and I'm fond of that image, too.

Vin:
Let me ask Michael, sort of a similar question to the one I asked Des, about being intimidated by this. Tommy, of course, for all of these years has been Roger Daltry. I mean, when we stop and we think about "Tommy" we may conjure up all sorts of other images for other parts of the album, but we associate that curly blond hair and that physique of his and that face of his. How did you feel about that, about going against the type, a dark-haired guy, relatively straight, not curly, not so much a rock and roller, the way Daltry is, did that frighten you at all?

Michael:
Well it was funny because when I first came in to audition in Los Angeles I assumed I must be coming in for something other than Tommy or that they were planning to give me a wig or something. I just assumed that. It was my image of who Tommy was too. And once I knew that I was auditioning for Tommy and once I was hired to do it, it was clear right there. That's not what the priority was gonna be. But that probably is the single biggest obstacle I've had in the whole process, is people's expectations of the way this character was gonna be portrayed. But thankfully, Des, and Pete, too, never, never made me feel that I was having to live up to what Roger had done. And that I wouldn't have to imitate what he had done or do anything but find my version of who this was.

Vin:
Well, Des, you said the minute Michael walked into the room, you knew that he was your Tommy. What about-

Des:
Well it wasn't actually the minute he walked in the room, it was the minute he started. He sang "Young American" by David Bowie and it was actually while he was singing the song, I'm exaggerating, I needed to hear that he could really sing.

Vin:
Yeah, "Do you remember your president Nixon" (sings)

Michael:
Exactly.

Vin:
Huh? Could I get the uhhhh- "Do you remember your president Nixon" No, huh?

Des:
I think you're more of a Captain Walker type.(laugh)

Michael:
A dashing RAF pilot, I think-

Vin:
All right, all right, he's singing "Young American" and then you knew.

Des:
Yeah, I actually had a real good, cause Michael is extremely charismatic and I might add, he's also an excellent actor. He does Shakespeare as well as he does this and he's an excellent film actor so that was really important. But he also has this, I was really into the notion of Tommy staying kind of young and vulnerable and Michael managed to kind of project in the audition almost an androgynous kind of energy that I thought would be really right for it. And Roger, without question has put the stamp on this character. There's no question about it. But it's interesting, if you go back and listen to the original album, I think that's something that evolved, in terms of "Tommy" as a performance piece for the Who which is of course one of the things Pete was trying to accomplish when he wrote this. It's unlike the other song cycles of the time, it's something that, unlike "Sergeant Pepper" this actually can be performed in concert but I think the notion of Roger as Tommy really evolved particularly when it got into the time of the Ken Russell film. Because if you listen to the original recording it's Pete's actually singing "Sensation." They actually traded-

Vin:
They traded a lot, yes.

Des:
It's like performance art. It was actually really kind of revolutionary. They actually traded parts back and forth, you know, kind of effortlessly. And in a sense the whole band was Tommy on some level particularly because of the musical dream reference. But in a way, I think it was easier, rather than trying to compete with Roger, which I think would have been a tragic blunder. We would have lost that one, for sure. I think it was actually, oddly enough, kind of a safe choice, to go in a very different direction. And what I kind of depended on in the casting process was going back to the original fantasies I had when I was listening to the album, like many other teenagers. And that's why I hope it fulfills most peoples' fantasies because I did try to get in touch with that, and I can remember before- I pictured Roger in the part, you know, before those days. I saw a child, you know, I saw Buddy. I saw a young kid who probably reminded me of you know, the kids I was going to school with. So that was one of the important choices we made, we decided to keep Tommy young for what is in fact, more than half of the evening. Michael doesn't actually, I don't want to give the play away, but he doesn't actually occupy the character until the end of the first act.

Vin:
Michael's sort of a free-floating spirit for most of that first act. Well, you have three Tommies altogether. And, the youngest Tommy is actually played on alternate nights by two young girls. I mean so you talk about androgyny there, these girls look the part, they look exactly like you two, it's amazing. There's that moment where the youngest Tommy, one of the girls and Buddy, exchange I've seen it twice now, and I still don't see when that happens and all of a sudden I realize it's Buddy on stage instead of the young Tommy.

Des:
I think, I hope it's clearer now cause I have a good friend who also pointed this out to me and I think it may be a little bit clearer. I was messing up that moment during the first preview. I hope it was clearer the second. When you come back again for your third time let me know if we clarified that.

Vin:
There's so much going on in this production. There's so much to watch.

Des:
Little busy, isn't it? (laughs)

Vin:
God, you don't stop and rest your eyes really for a moment in this thing and that's part of the wonder of it as well is the technology that's involved. And yet, I don't think you guys have over done it with the technology.

Des:
Well, we didn't want to kind of embrace spectacle for the sake of it. There's spectacle and plenty of it involved in the show but it's all connected to story telling. The one thing Pete and I didn't want to do was to overburden the piece with a lot of additional dialogue. We wanted to clarify the story line and get the thematic development happening through visual work. And it's my opinion that you know I think technology's just now- stagecraft has caught up, to electric music. You know fifteen years ago in order to stage "Tommy" we would have had to drag microphone cables around the stage and that makes that's inherently kind of or that's basically a presentational form if you've got a microphone in your hand, it's a presentational kind of thing.

Vin:
Ummm, As opposed to theatrical-

Des:
Representational and dramatic, and we wanted to do the dramatic version.And thank God we have the technology now that allows us to do that. What I think is sort of interesting is it seems to me that it's technology that actually brings allows us to bring humanity to electric music onstage. Normally we think of technology as being something that kind of distances us and is cold. And in this particular case, it's what allows the actors to really play scenes together.

Vin:
Yeah, now I have to ask you, Michael, how much fun is it being on that pinball machine, the one that rises up out of the stage on that sort of numatic device and dances all around the stage with you dancing all around on it. Is that a blast or are you worried about falling off?

Michael:
No, I'm not worried. Maybe I'm not as worried as I ought to be about falling off. It's no, it is a blast. And it's also because of the point that it comes in the evening. It's a time when you're really ready to finally just let loose, and after spending three-quarters of the play standing still and staring off into space, it comes at the perfect time. And it's just a blast to do. I mean it's like an E ticket ride.

Vin:
Yeah and then the thing explodes, literally. It's a wonderful rock and roll moment, as well as a wonderful theatrical moment.

Michael:
This goes back to the comment that Des mentioned earlier when I told him the thing that most impressed me with the script in the beginning was the heart that was there. The first day at rehearsal we sat down with the script like we would for any theatre piece and read through the script. And in this case that meant reading even the song lyrics and not singing them but just reading everything. And the really remarkable thing to me was that it read as a theatre piece and as a story with a real human message in it. And in rehearsal we had plywood mockups of things, and this goes back to La Jolla. And people are standing on ladders when they're actually going to be flying through the air and so none of the technology was involved at that point. And what we found was that we had this remarkable theatre piece in this room, with nothing else. And all through the weeks, seeming weeks and weeks of tech, we had that to go back to and know that even though it's taking us forever to get all of the technical wizardry together, we still have that, you know, the heart of that theatrical experience there. So all of the technical gadgetry just enables that to be presented in the best light.

Vin:
Without that heart all you've got is technology and that's...

Michael::
Which you see, a lot! There are plenty of examples of but it's not something that any of us wanted to do.

Vin:
One of the neat things about the show of course is that just about everybody who comes to the theatre, already knows every word to every song. Every lick, every guitar note. So there are explosive moments when certain musical chords are struck when the audience just goes wild. And one of those moments is, of course, when those pinball guys emerge from the floor and sing a song about this "Pinball Wizard." On 92.3 Krock with the director and some of the cast of the Who's "Tommy" on Broadway......

"Pinball Wizard"

Vin:
Of course there's now a there's an interesting technological development here with regard to the pinball machines and that is that the pinball machines that you're reproducing in "Tommy" are really nothing like what pinball machines are like now. When Tommy first plays pinball that's a real old fashioned machine with a ball and some bells and that's about it. And kids today are used to these computerized machines. It's almost like going back to some prehistoric time in pinball development. Buddy Smith, you play the middle Tommy and you with just a couple of exceptions, I guess when there's a few lines that you sing, you are the deaf dumb and blind kid, I mean, you are the kid who is that portrait of Tommy. And you were marvelous in the part.

Buddy:
Thank you.

Vin:
Totally believable in the part. How do you do it? Did you have to go to some outside source to learn how to get that vacant look, to learn how to let your body just be totally loose like that? How did you do it?

Buddy:
Well, you just need to concentrate like really hard on like keeping your focus and not moving. And like if something goes wrong you can't do anything about it really, and that's basically it.You just gotta kind of just let yourself go and not do anything.

Vin:
I mean, you're no stranger to the theatre. You're twelve years old, but you've been professionally acting for a number of years now. You've got Broadway and you've got regional theatre credits, TV credits, you've done some soap operas and stuff. Haven't you done some soaps as well?

Buddy:
Yeah.

Vin:
Has anything prepared you for playing this part?

Buddy:
Um, well, not really, nothing like acting-wise, no. But, I did go to a blind school before I the show, was in production. It was while we were in rehearsals. And I went there and I saw some autistic kids. I watched how they just kind of reacted to things and moved around. And it was-

Des:
He did this on his own, by the way.

Vin:
Really?

Buddy:
It's really neat. It's just, it's nothing how you would expect them, like they're really smart. Like they know things like if somebody tries to stand them up, they'll like feel your arm and just by feeling your arm, they'll know who you are. And certain things like that. And certain sounds and stuff, they are attracted to. And like sometimes one girl, put her um, they turned on a radio really loud and then she just put her ear right up to the radio and she just sat there because she could feel vibrations and stuff from it.

Vin::
Well, there's that scene where he's being examined by one of the doctors, and he is reacting to some kind of sound or some kind of physical mechanism where he's ringing the bell. And, that's sort of vague, as to what's actually going on there, cause there's a little bit of hope. The parents are looking, going, "Oh, maybe everything" but then the doctor shakes his head and says "No, it's not."

Des:
Yeah, it's like repetitive behavior. It's not, and I think that's quite accurate, one of the Nordoff Robins, is one of the charities that Pete Townshend and the Who have supported for years because of their work with autistic children and traumatized children, reaching them through music. So that is a therapy that's actually proved to be very very effective. In the scene in the play, he only gets to the kind of threshold of where it's going to help him express himself and, you know, repetitive movement is not unusual in autistic or in highly traumatized children. And so that's what, you know, it fails at that point.

Vin:
I gotta ask Buddy this. Just between you and me now, Buddy, nobody else listen. When you go to bed every night, do you pray that you don't have a growth spurt? (laughs) Because if you have a growth spurt, you're out of the show. He's out of the show, right Des?

Michael:
No, he just starts setting his sights on my role.

Vin::
Oh, I see, a real growth spurt.

Michael::
No, I pray every night that he doesn't have a growth spurt. (laugh)

Vin:
But, you, I mean it's interesting, you had to pick kids who fit a certain physical shape and size and color and everything else, and they're all a little older than the characters they're playing. Actually, the two girls who play four year old Tommy, or something like-

Des:
Six and eight!

Vin:
Six and eight? Yeah.

Des:
Yeah, well that helps because the additional maturity in the kids, you know, obviously they're in a professional situation and it requires a lot of discipline and they're terrific kids, every one of them, they work really hard. But I think being a little bit older than the part, helps. And you know what's one of the inspirations for going with the two girls, was that they both seem to play a little smaller, and play a little younger than the boys. I also auditioned boys for those parts, too. And I also thought it was kind of fun that, because little girls would presumably come to the play. And I was thinking, "Now we've got what Annie's got, too." (laugh) They can sit there and they could think, gee, I'd like to be doing that, I could be doing that too.

Vin::
Right. What about the rest of your life, Buddy, do you go to school every day? Do you go to your regular school, or do you have a tutor, or what?

Buddy::
Well, right now, actually, the show is providing us tutors. And, now, I have two more weeks with the tutor, and then I'm done with school this year. But then, next year, if I'm still with the play, I'll just, what I do, I go to regular school for two periods, in the morning, and then I have a tutor for the rest.

Vin:
Hmmmm. You're what, in seventh grade now?

Buddy:
Yeah.

Vin:
Yeah, okay, the same age as my daughter. Twelve years old, seventh grade. You guys wanna, be, uh, (laugh)

Des:
Bring her to the play. (laugh)

Vin:
She's been to the play, are you kidding? We'll talk about that some other time. My guests are Des McAnuff, and Michael C-C-Cerverez? No.

Michael:
Cerveris!

Vin:
Cerveris, Cerveris, and Buddy Smith. From Tommy. You know, I've never really been concerned and maybe it's just stupidity or something but I've never been really very concerned about the nature of Tommy's problem. You know, the autistic child, or even the abuse that Tommy suffers, has never really, it's always been a metaphor to me, you know? Do you find it interesting that people are responding to that? People are saying, oh, you have to be careful here, how you present this, you have to be politically correct and sensitive to this problem.

Des:
Well it's it's interesting. The play is in a sense a series of the story line is really a series of abuses and a series of treatments in the attempt to reach this child. And of course he eventually reaches inside himself and yanks himself to the surface of reality and the audience watches this develop. The abuses what's interesting, I had somebody, there's a sequence that involves a spinning bed and I won't go into more detail than that. But somebody was saying that they thought the uncle Ernie abuse should be more graphic or stronger in La Jolla. So my response is always, "Oh, so you really would like me to abuse the child, that's what you're saying, what's your moral stand on child abuse? I mean, if you need, in order to get your own kind of little theatrical thrill, to actually see. So we actually try to be, I think, we portray the horror of what happens to Tommy, in I think a really strong way, without affecting our children, the kids who are in the show. And we've spent time, Buddy and I have spent time, and Buddy's understudy, Ari, and Christa, and Carly. I've spent time with all of them, talking about the abuses that Tommy suffers in the play, and I think we've got a pretty good understanding of that. And they've all asked questions and they're all smart, hip kids, and their protection is the most important thing to us. And, this doesn't just apply to "Tommy." My feeling about people are more important than plays, and if you don't believe that, then you've got to be a real jerk. I don't care what kind of artist you think of yourself at the point where it becomes more important than the people you're working with. Then you're a monster.

Michael:
I remember the first day of rehearsal in La Jolla. Des talking to the company and just reminding all of us that we were going to be working with kids. And that we need to be aware of that and take some responsibility for the way we treat them. And the way we deal with each other around them. You can't just be oblivious to the people you're working with especially when it's young people.

Vin:
I get the feeling during the cousin Kevin scene and your cousin Kevin is wonderful, by the way, and opening night.

Des:
Great haircut.

Vin:
Yeah, very cool haircut.That sort of neo-Hitler kind of haircut that he's got goin for him there.

Des:
I'm seeing that haircut now, all over New York.

Vin:
Oh yeah, it's definitely a happening haircut.

Michael:
Edwardian Facist, it's a fascinating thing.

Vin:
My family and I had the pleasure of sitting behind cousin Kevin's family. Opening night. So, boy! (laugh) Did we get an earful!

Des:
I'll bet!

Vin:
But during the whole cousin Kevin scene, when he sings his number and goes through his thing with Tommy. You know, and he finally winds up bringing him to the rec center, where he plays pinball for the first time, and all the other kids are involved in this abuse as well. I get that feeling that you're talking about, that underneath that, there is this wonderful warm protective spirit that the cast has towards Buddy.

Des::
Yeah, I think that, as Michael was talking about, the piece having some heart from hopefully Pete and I put into it. But I really do think the show has genuine soul. And that soul comes from this remarkable company of artists who believe fanatically in this, and what it's about. And as you've seen there's this extraordinary celebration in that audience every night. It's happened a hundred and whatever it is, fifty times now, with all the performances in La Jolla. And I think a lot of that comes from the fact that, you know, there is real compassion, as well as a great deal of energy up there. I hope there's real intelligence. I think its a really intelligent company. There's real drive in the company but I think there's real compassion. I think they really care about each other. That sequence you were talking about we've always been very concerned about the safety of the ten year old Tommy, you feel pretty safe, don't you?

Buddy:
Yeah

Des:
It's a good time, being rolled around-

Vin:
Being rolled around, that actually looks like fun. And there's that wonderful moment when he slides out, exactly on cue, that musical cue and everything. That's a real neat theatrical moment.

Des:
You know, it's funny, it was a very early idea that cousin Kevin. We needed to develop through line characters when you're telling a story like this. Unlike the song cycle where there's no obligation to do that and unlike the film where there are mainly cameos from sort of famous rock and roll legends, we had the obligation of actually creating characters that had, that followed all the way through. And I can remember that was a very early idea, the idea that cousin Kevin inadvertently would put Tommy at a pinball machine after abusing him and that this would actually be Tommy's kind of window to the universe. That was an early idea that we cooked up, I think at that very first meeting at the Portobello Hotel.

Vin:
Well I think I have him cued up here, let's see. Yes, I do, on 92.3 Krock. Here comes that, that strange young man.

"Cousin Kevin"

Vin:

92.3 Krock, Idiot's Delight.

Commercial messages

Vin:
Des McAnuff, co-writer of the book of "Tommy." Will there be a book, will there be an actual printed script, quote unquote?

Des:
There is a printed script that actually, I think, reads in a fairly vivid way, cause there's more description, because so much of the show's visual.

Vin:
There's very little dialogue. For people who haven't seen it yet, there's hardly any dialogue.

Des::
It kind of sets up the libretto with visual imagery, and just locations and everything, it even gives the- [tape skips] change, that gave us the confidence to come in. I brought, the first time I remember it being discussed at all, because we weren't talking about going to Broadway initially. We were going to do some kind of tour, but we didn't expect to come to Broadway this fast. And it was, the play opened in the beginning of July, and this was late August, and I met with the producers here in New York, and said, you know, a lot of people are saying to me, when are you going to Broadway? And a lot of theatre industry people, agents and so on. And I said, I think, guys, I was on my way to Cornwall to see Pete. I said "I think it really is time to bring up the B word, because we don't want to sneak in like thieves in the night. You know, after touring for a couple years, if this is what I think it might be, we need to get it to New York. We need to let New York discover this for itself first. That's its place in the theatrical community. It's the pinnacle, so they suggested that I mention it to Pete, so I certainly did. I went over and Pete and I had a long, long discussion, and you know, he was very cautious about coming to New York. He thinks of New York very much as his town. It's really the city that made the Who, it was that engagement at the Fillmore East, you know, that really launched the Who into super-stardom. A phrase you don't hear that much anymore. Thank God! Anyway, so he was very cautious about whether we should, about going to New York. But we had a meeting last October, where all the lawyers and the producers around and everybody was basically discussing the pros and cons. And Pete just said at one point, "We're going in, we're doing it this year, that's what Des and I think needs to happen." And suddenly the whole focus of the meeting changed from whether or not to do it, to how to do it, and how to do it in the best way. But it was really ultimately Pete's decision to come here and we were never positive you never want to second guess the critical community. But the indications were good. What I'm really proud of, I'm very proud of the Broadway community. I think the Broadway community, the critical community, and really, across the board, they really embraced the show. I think they see that this is gonna be the beginning of a new audience electric music. Let's get Elvis Costello writing for these. These are beautiful houses. Let's get Robbie Robertson and some of the great songwriters. We need them in the theatre. We need to, and I think this is the first step. I think it's revitalized the Broadway theatre.

Vin:
This is the first time that somebody of Townshend's caliber, coming from the rock world has had his music translated intact onto Broadway. Up until now anything that's been quote a "rock musical" has been written by people who aren't necessarily rock composers or rock musicians, acting as if they knew what rock and roll was and maybe sometimes coming slightly close to some sort of "genre" whether it be "Grease" or "Hair" or whatever. But it wasn't the real thing. And now you've got the real thing there.

Des:
This is the real thing.

Vin:
Yeah, you know, and like you say, maybe it opens up the door for other of these wonderful composers.

Des:
Yeah, we need to demystify the theatre for composers. you know, theatre songs used to be on the charts. I mean, in the early fifties, Frank Loesser was writing hit singles, basically, and when rock and roll came along in 1955, whether it was because it was too rebellious, whether it was too threatening, who knows. I think it had to do with technology, too, as I mentioned. I think it had a lot to do with that, but there was, a real gap started to form between popular music, the music that most of us listened to on the radio and the music we heard in the theatre. Broadway increasingly quoted itself and created its own kind of genre, and that should continue. God knows, and Pete would be the first to say this.You know, Steven Sondheim is without question, a great genius of the musical theatre. And comes out of a different tradition than Pete Townshend. I think there's room for both on Broadway.

Vin:
Well, you brought up Elvis Costello. If you listen to Costello's last album, that he did with the Brodsky Quartet, those songs are all theatre songs, they're theatre pieces. They're little-

Des:
I spoke to him, actually, when I was in England, about, uh...You know, he's someone that I would very much like to see writing in the theatre. I think Ray Davies is a natural songwriter for the theatre, and did extremely well. So, I hope this is the beginning of something. We never wanted to take that responsibility on, and Pete was bullish about saying, "This is not about anything other than trying to get "Tommy" finished. He didn't want the responsibility of being the vanguard for a new age in Broadway. But, you know, I think, as it turns out, what's great is the warm reception from the professional community. I mean, I think it's great, that they've responded this way.

Vin:
Well, also, it's wonderful for that community to have a hit with people lined up around the block, buying tickets a year and a half in advance? That's exciting!

Des:
People of all shapes and sizes, you know the traditional theatre-goer, I think they're surprised. The emotional journey that they go on through the piece actually leads them into appreciating music that they maybe didn't think they liked. But most of us, you know we've been listening to rock and roll now for thirty-five years. So, even people who think they don't like rock and roll, it turns out, like my parents, it turns out they actually do. They actually are familiar with it, it is comfortable for them, so we're not excluding those folks either. We want the octogenarians in the theatre, as well as the young folks.

Vin::
"Turn it down, though, just a little bit."

Michael:
That was the best sight in La Jolla because there it's a resident theatre and the subscriber base is considerably older. And to look out on a Saturday and Sunday matinee to a sea of gray hair and people with their fingers in their ears cause it was a little loud for them. But huge smiles on their faces and boppin up and down in their seats, and loving it.

Vin:
You know what you've got going for you here, too, with that element of the audience is that a lot of the show is about their generation. A lot of the show is about the generation that was young during World War II and came home from World War II and had kids who grew up to be Tommy and the rock and roll generation. So there's something there. The first fifteen or twenty minutes is something that anybody can relate to, and-

Des:
That's very perceptive of you. And it looks manipulative but it really wasn't. I mean, that was something we discovered-

Vin:
Des, how are you gonna tell the story? How are you gonna tell the damn story if you don't show that? You have to show that.

Des:
That was kind of a wonderful discovery that people would- that generation - would respond to it because it was their story. But it really wasn't the motivation at all for doing it. The time line of the piece - it starts in 1940. Of course with Tommy's conception and Captain Walker's capture, and then it actually ends just at the beginning of the British Invasion. It ends actually, the year of the mod. It ends '63, maybe into '64 a little bit. I think by staying away from the sort of tie-dye and hooka (sp?)pipes, we managed to maybe bust through some of the negative expectations. If people thought it was gonna be kind of retro-sixties, it's actually something else. It happened to be written in '69, but of course it's about, as you pointed out earlier, it's about Pete's life and times, and that's forties and fifties.

Vin:
And if people want to watch a movie that has something to do with this, instead of watching Ken Russell's "Tommy" they should go back and watch "Quadrophenia." Cause "Quadrophenia" is really the time period that you're talking about and it's the characters that you're talking about.

Des::
And I think the best prep, to, for this is, and I'm a big fan of "Quadrophenia" as well, but I think the best preparation is just if people want to do anything at all, which is, of course, unnecessary. But I'd go back and listen to the original recording, too. Cause that's still very much for all of us, it's a piece that we love. I love the concept album as a concept album. I still play it and it exists on its own. It was the blueprint for the show. It's different than the show but we'll have that hopefully, forever, and I really encourage people to have a listen to that before they come in.

Vin:
Well, we're going to listen to some more of it right now, as we thank very much, Des McAnuff, who is the co-writer and director of "Tommy" on Broadway, and Buddy Smith, who plays middle Tommy, and Michael Cerveris?

Michael:
Mmm-hmmm.

Vin:
Hmmm! All right, good! If you spent like another three or four hours here, I'd have it down, who is the main Tommy, in this production, which is playing over at the St. James Theatre. I thank you guys so much for spending time with us here, tonight, on Idiot's Delight. And Des, how long will you stay involved in the show here in New York? Are you planning to leave soon and go back to California?

Des:
Yeah, I've already been back and forth to California, and I go again. We'll be opening our season out there in a couple weeks, and I'll be going back to work on the opening production, which is "Children of Paradise." It's an exciting season for us. It's already been announced that we won the Tony for outstanding regional theatre this year, which will be presented on June sixth. And our opening play also got an award.

Vin:
"Children of Paradise" being...

Des:
It's a play about the making of the film in occupied France, and it's a magnificent piece of theatre, from Minneapolis, and it's actually a drama. But it's just an extraordinary work, it really is.

Vin:
As a director, I always wondered about this, how often do you check in with the production? What's the director's role?

Michael:
I've been wondering about this. (laugh)

Des:
It's actually the stage manager's responsibility, Frank Hartstein to maintain the show. I would generally supervise things like replacements and I'll come in from time to time, to give notes. But I'm going to take very good care of this baby. We hope we'll do companies other places. We start the national tour in..we go to rehearsal in September and we open in Dallas on October the twelfth. I'm going to absolutely direct that. And, we'll take very, very good care of this, out of respect for the show and out of, of course, respect, for the Who.

Vin:
Now, when did the Tony nominations come out? When did they get announced?

Des:
I'm not sure. Uh...

Vin:
Sometime in the next couple of months, I guess.

Des:
It must be relatively soon. So, here's hoping that we get a few.

Vin:
Okay. And Michael, you're in the show for the duration at this point, or what?

Michael:
Yeah, indefinitely, you know, I can't think of anything else I'd rather be doing.

Des:
He better not go any place!

Vin:
(laughs) Isn't it a kick to be flying around on a Broadway stage like that, doin that old Peter Pan number?

Michael:
It's great and now that it happens the same way every night, it's especially great. I land on my feet at center stage. I really love it.

Vin:
You have some faith in those wires, huh?

Michael:
Yeah, and the great guys who are holding me up there.

Vin:
Okay. Great, well, and Buddy, you're yawning over there, I think it's time to put you to bed. Listen, you wanna get together with my daughter at some point along the way, you know? Both twelve years old, seventh graders, both from New Jersey? You know, we could get a little thing happening there, all right? (laugh) Wouldn't mind having a Broadway actor in the family you know. Buddy Smith, also from the cast of "Tommy." Thank you guys, and congratulations on a magnificent achievement on Broadway.

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